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	<title>Modest Meditators's Weblog &#187; Love Until it hurts</title>
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		<title>Modest Meditators's Weblog &#187; Love Until it hurts</title>
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		<title>Group Meeting 1/13/2008</title>
		<link>http://modestmeditators.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/group-meeting-1132008/</link>
		<comments>http://modestmeditators.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/group-meeting-1132008/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 00:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jake Gest</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Meeting Notes]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[An Upper-Right Approach to Sex]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[consciousness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[discussion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[enlightenment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feminine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gender]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gender roles]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[integral]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[interview]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ken Wilbur]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Love Until it hurts]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[masculine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[meditation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spirituality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Videos]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://modestmeditators.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/group-meeting-1132008/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought I would actually take some initiative and start contributing to this blog, rather than let it sit and collect dust. So I am going to post a bit about last weeks meeting.
For anyone who is not in our group but has happened upon this blog, or maybe one of us sent you here [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=modestmeditators.wordpress.com&blog=2292249&post=12&subd=modestmeditators&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p><i>I thought I would actually take some initiative and start contributing to this blog, rather than let it sit and collect dust. So I am going to post a bit about last weeks meeting.</i></p>
<p>For anyone who is not in our group but has happened upon this blog, or maybe one of us sent you here our meetings have been fairly regular, we usually have them on Sunday nights (a pleasant way to wrap up the week -or start the new one). We like to share a meal together, have some sort of discussion&#8217;s that has to do to meditation and then have a small group meditative practice.</p>
<p>Dinner was a random kitchen sink stew and salad, it was quite yummy (I could be considered slightly biased on that account). <a href="http://pinklaser.wordpress.com/">Josh</a> presented two videos featuring <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Wilber">Ken Wilbur</a>, as well as a short interview, to the group to facilitate some discussion. After the discussion we did 20 minutes of group meditation. We decided to continue with a very simple individualistic practice where we all do our own thing for the time period we decide. I personally think that if all else fails in this practice it at least gives everyone one time a week where we know we will try some meditation.</p>
<p>So&#8230; a little bit about the Ken Wilbur material and our discussion:<br />
(You can find the clips and lots of other video, audio and written material on integral naked (<a href="http://in.integralinstitute.org/">http://in.integralinstitute.org/</a>) but there is a membership fee to register and be able to access any of it, yes spirituality &#8211; at least as far as Ken Wilbur is concerned &#8211; costs money)</p>
<p><b>Video Clip: Love Until it hurts</b><br />
<i> This a clip from a question and answer secession Ken did somewhere. Answering a question, Ken talks about the difference between the path of spiritual enlightenment in regards to gender. Mr Wilbur takes the stance that the masculine approach to spirituality -or enlightenment &#8211; is to achieve  a state of <a href="http://definr.com/equanimity+">equanimity</a> or stillness, while a feminine approach would  be to find absolute compassion. So for example, a man might find it advantageous to stare at a wall for hours on end remaining motionless, while a woman might find a practice that lends itself to caring for others (such as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonglen">tonglen</a>) much more spiritually rewarding. His argument is that both practices aim for the same goal, which is the recognition of the divine in everything (the idea that everything is equally wondrous, and nothing is bad, or worse than something else).</i></p>
<p>So, some of the group expressed a lot of disagreement with the idea that such masculine or feminine tenancies had to be specifically linked with gender at all. Some also had trouble agreeing that these tendencies should even be viewed as masculine or feminine at all, even outside of gender roles. There were also problems with how systematically organized Ken&#8217;s theories are; although some members found this organized system helpful in describing experiences in spirituality or enlightenment, others found it too confining and unrealistic towards life&#8217;s experiences.</p>
<p><b>Video Clip: An Upper-Right Approach to Sex</b><br />
(Upper right is a quadrant in Wilbur&#8217;s integral spirituality system, it is the view of a person in the 3rd person objective, or as an external object. Referring to the physical, biological aspects of an individual)<br />
<i> This Clip was from a different question and answer session. Again in response to someones question Ken again talks about differences between men and women. This is more about biochemistry, and he talks mainly about how men and women deal differently with the issue of sex and he gives reasons based mostly on hormones. His idea is that testosterone which is the dominant hormone in men leads to aggression, violence and egocentricity.  While Estrogen and oxytosen in women leads to&#8230; well focus around a partner, and their emotional involvement. So while men might tend towards aggressive and violent behaviors and more towards sex they can redirect such feeling by say.. aggressively caring for all life.</i></p>
<p>This video caused even more disagreement in our group. In fact individuals not only expressed disagreement that men and women think or act in these ways, but the mention of this upset some and made them want to block the rest of what he had to say on the subject. It was expressed that these views are even somewhat stereotypically male, similar to the some of Freud&#8217;s  views on masculine and feminine personalities, and although they might be excepted by some, they are just theories.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what interview we listened to, it mainly talked about what integral spirituality was and Ken Wilbur&#8217;s role in publicizing it. Overall I think the videos and interview did offer a good base for discussion. I hope I didn&#8217;t leave any of the groups opinions out, maybe they will respond the this post if they wish to add anything. Of course if you aren&#8217;t in this small group I think you should feel free to discuss the topic with us (or me at least).</p>
<p><b>Happy Meditations,</b></p>
<p><i><font face="mistral" size="9">Jake</font></i></p>
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